Monday, August 8, 2016

Dr. Appointments....

I told Knight that in order for me to put any more energy or effort into our marriage he MUST:
  • see a doctor to find out why he's having memory issues, and he MUST see that process to some sort of conclusion unless I tell him  otherwise
  • take full responsibility for things he forgets, start keeping log of things he's forgotten and share that log with me so that I always have access to it.
  • be *totally and completely* honest with me about everything AND 
  • stop hiding things from me and understand that the stuff he feels he has to hide from me, is the stuff he NEEDS to tell me.
  •  Start following the depression protocol I gave him-- no exceptions and no excuses.
  • Agree to go to ER with me if I decided any memory lapse was worth the trip.
  • Fully live our FLR lifestyle and stop trying to straddle the line. 
  • Start showing appreciation for the many, many things I do for him.


that, if he did these things,  I would give him ONE more chance to make things right. IF he earned the right to a last chance, it would be on the condition that if he *ever* lied to me or hid *anything* from me *ever* again, I would tell him to leave without any discussion, and if he was not home when I discovered the dishonesty I wouldn't even allow him to come home from where ever he was. But as it stood last Monday, I really just wanted him to leave, and we were finished. I told him until he found a place to live he could either sleep in his son's room (the son is in residential treatment), or on the couch, but he was not welcome in my bedroom. And then I gave him a final move out date.

Well, it seems that a week sleeping alone,  looking for a place to live and packing has caused him to reevaluate his behaviors and his opinions. Since last Monday when I told him I wanted him to leave, he has been trying very hard to be a good submissive husband, with little to no encouragement from me.

Late last week he let me know that he scheduled a doctor's appointment for late September, and asked if I'd go with him. He's also admitted that maybe the depression and the memory loss could be connected. AND is making a solid effort to change the way he handles times when we bring it to his attention that he's forgotten something. He's admitted that his anxiety is causing problems between us and he needs help to manage it.

Sometime Friday he let me know, by his actions, that he understands he's been straddling the FLR line and making my world difficult and causing stress. While he didn't put it into words, he DID start behaving like *MY* submissive husband again. He was by no means "perfect" this weekend, but he did TRY, and that's all I've ever asked of him.

He's come clean about the things he was hiding from me over the last month or so, and why. He tried to apologize, but I told him that after the week before when he apologized and then repeated the action, I had no desire to listen to another meaningless apology. He makes it up to me by NEVER hiding anything from me again.

Saturday when our daughter pointed out something he'd said he'd help her with, but forgot, he started to try to cover it, but stopped himself mid-sentence. Instead he apologized to her for forgetting, and looked to me for permission to stop what we were doing and go do what he had told our daughter he would do. I gave that permission and the two of them went off of to complete the task. I had one very happy 10 yr old.

Saturday morning, he asked me what I wanted him to eat for breakfast, and asked what supplements he was supposed to take.  Same thing on Sunday.. This morning, I made his breakfast while he was in the shower because we got up late. He took his supplements before he left for work, and took his breakfast with him.

He put a lot of effort into US over the last week, and especially over the weekend. So, on Saturday night I invited him to sleep in my bedroom with me. I made it clear that he would be welcome only on a day-by-day basis, and that it would be determined by his behavior that day. If he screws up, he's back on the couch.

Sunday was good. We got up super late because we were talking. When we finally got out of bed, he made my coffee and his breakfast, and took his supplements without hassle. We went to fighter practice, and that went well. It was clear that he was paying attention to the things I had told him.  Last night when we got home from fighter practice, I pointed out that he had forgotten to do the dishes before we left. He got up and took care of it without a word of protest. (unusual. Typically he argues the point). Around 9, I told him to go take a hot shower and some Kava because his neck was tightened up so badly he could barely move his head. (from a hit he took at fighter practice earlier) he started to protest, but stopped, and went to do as he was told. Later, he thanked me and said it had helped a lot. 

This morning he didn't say "thank you" when I made his breakfast. I sent him an email a little while ago letting him know of his oversight. I told him that I will come up with a way for him to show me his appreciation tonight, since he was unappreciative this morning. He responded with an apology, and excuse about being brain fogged this morning.  I answered that I didn't want to hear his apology, OR his excuse.. he will make it up to me tonight. I won't tolerate rudeness.  I'll probably have him give me a full body massage until I fall asleep tonight. Yes, it's a pleasant "punishment" but.. at the same time,  full body massage until I fall asleep used to be a routine thing, and I'd like to bring it back.. so this is a good way to start to do that. I did tell him that the next time he "forgets" to say "thank you" the consequences won't be as pleasant.. I expect him to be polite..

How much hope do I have that this will continue, and we'll work things out??

Honestly, not much.

His actions over the last week fit pretty well into the pattern I've seen from him over the last few years.. he gets lazy and inattentive to me, the kids and our marriage. I try to get him back on track and finally get angry because all he does is make excuses and we start fighting about it. At some point, he stops fighting with me and gets back on track for awhile. He's on his "best behavior" for a month or three (if I'm lucky), and then things start to go downhill again. Repeat.

It's been going on for a few years now.. and I can't figure out why we see the decline in his behavior.  I have my suspicions.... I think it's his depression kicking in.. and he refuses to talk to me about what goes on his his head... BUT I'm not willing to continue the pattern.

Deep down, I hope we can work this out.. but so much of it depends on him following through with the doctor appointment, depression protocols and anything else that needs to happen in order to understand his memory lapses.

We'll see.


13 comments:

  1. I feel really bad for him. It seems like his chances of success here are really low, now matter how badly he wants to succeed.

    I've known a fair number of people with depression, and it's going to make it very difficult to navigate the fine line he now has to walk. Even with protocols, nothing happens right away, and he may forget "please" and "thank you" despite his best intentions. I hope the imposition of "consequences [that] won't be as pleasant" somehow accounts for that.

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  2. To be honest, I've been dealing with this for manyyears.. 11 of them to be exact. I have been after him for 10 full years to find out what's going on medically so we can deal with it. He has flatly refused until now. I've been understanding, I've been patient, I've been strict, I've tried literally everything there is to try. He won't stay on a depression protocol, he won't go to the doctor to see about meds. I'm not even totally sure it IS depression we're dealing with. It could be something else.. But since he has refused to see a doctor depression is my best guess-- and that's all it is, a guess.

    I've given him a list of things that I need to see change. First and foremost is complete openness and honesty with me about what is going on with him. If he does THAT, we can deal with the rest. If he lies to me, or hides anything, no matter how small, we are finished.. on the spot. No more discussion.

    There are many ways to show appreciation-- and any of them are acceptable. A "thank you" is the simplest and most straight forward, but I know Knight.. and I know what he does to show appreciation.. he just needs to start doing those things, and stop acting like he doesn't care if the kids and I are here or not. I have told him repeatedly that he comes across like he wants out. I've offered separation a couple times over the years, to give him a chance to bow out gracefully. He says he wants us to work things out, so acting like he doesn't care makes no sense.

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  3. It's a horrible conundrum. Apparently, a large percentage of people with depression refuse to get treatment for a number of reasons. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703946504575470040863778372.


    If he's really depressed, he probably will not show appreciation but at the same time would not want to "bow out" if asked. You get to a point of numb hopelessness. The disease has done a number on my family, with tragic endings for some and near misses for others.

    The societal stigma that comes with mental illness makes it very difficult to accept you have it, let alone open up about it. Of course, at the end of the day, you still need to take care of yourself and your kids. It's just an awful situation.




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  7. Angelique, I admire you. I'm happy you are giving this one more go - if for nothing else than for the kids and their need for a mom and a dad. Isn't it interesting that he 'can', he 'is able' he 'is capable' of being your submissive and obeying you. I think you should have called him on his oversight when he didn't thank you for making breakfast rather than call him on it sometime later. There is something to be said for 'teachable moments' and addressing them at the time when the moment is indeed teachable.

    I remember you writing about his reluctance/inability to see himself as a submissive man. I couldn't help but think back to those posts given his situation now. He is on very thin ice. He knows he needs to obey. He knows he can't lie. He knows he needs to be open. This is just my two cents but I wonder if now might be a good time to have him address this and admit what he was unable to admit before. He has no choice but to obey. He has no leverage. I think this is the ideal time to make him what you want him to be - even though you doubt he will continue.

    In my mind, if you can do it one day you can do it for two and if you can do it again there is no reason not to believe it can't be done forever. Best of luck with your marriage.

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  8. To be honest, reading your blog, I think you have the psychology inverted.

    Submission causes depression causes submission. Don't believe me? Think about what submission requires. The curtailing of activation. Keep that up long enough, the brain will get depressed. Getting angry at him to curtail more behaviour and you are compounding the problem.

    The dynamic of your relationship may be the problem. Best treatment for depression is behavioural activation including exercise and play and new experiences.

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  9. I guess to put it more bluntly... is his life fun any more? Are you fun any more?

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  10. Thinking of you and him. Hope you are both ok. Wishing you a great and happy 2017.

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  11. It may be time for an intervention if you really love him. Could save you marriage and a life.

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  13. Hello Angelique. I have read some of your blogs, and I feel I need to step in here.

    Alfonso Guilla is right, any form of submission will cause depression. Even if he enjoys it, his brain will not like the negative feedback he is constantly getting.

    People generally do not lie because they do not trust you, they lie because they fear the consequences of telling the truth. This is why, when you yell at children for smashing a plate, they are more likely to lie to you if it happened again for fear of a visceral reaction. Depression can make someone feel really down, and honestly this is where you need to start putting your FLR to one side and making sure he knows you are there for him.

    That is the nature of this FLR kink, you are always treading a fine line, so you need to always be communicating as a team and you cannot do this for extended periods at a time. As a doctor, I see most marriages being destroyed who take up FLR because they cross the line of team ship and go into being dominant, removing the open line of communication between each other and letting FLR spread outside the bedroom.

    For most of this blog, you have said how you have told him to be submissive, and not to lie and how you have felt. But at no point have I seen you ask him how he is feeling. Maybe he just wants to talk to you, and not get punished for the way he feels. For example, would you punish him because he admits he does not like doing the dishes because he at times does not like to be pushed around? I can guarantee that if you ask him how he is feeling, and mention that there will be no consequences with what he says, you may get to the crucks of what is bothering him, but you do need to hear him out and listen to him, rather than fighting (side note: don’t be surprise of he bursts into tears when you do this).

    A good marriage has trust and open communication between each other, where you can call pause on whatever you are doing and talk your emotions, whether that is in the bedroom or on the general house. However, it seems this FLR has seeped out of the bedroom and into your lives, to the point where the domination has taken over your open line of communication that is so pivotal to a marriage. It seems that your domination of him in the bedroom has now become your domination of him in his life, and that never feels good feeling like a slave. This is why whenever you do anything like this, you need to have an open line of communication and say STOP so you can both express your feelings without consequences.

    If you are still having problems, this is what I suggest you do.
    First: Pause your FLR experience, and work on being teammates. Do not order him around, but act as a team again. For example, if there are dishes that need to be done, ask him to come and help you with the dishes.
    Second: Talk to him face to face about issues, don’t write down a list and just hand it to him, and certainly do not send an email about something when he is living with you. Listen to him, and understand what he is going through, maybe what he needs now is a shoulder to cry on.
    Third: You need to start giving some of the power back to him, letting him sleep in the same bed is a start, you punishing him by not letting him sleep with you just pushes you both further apart.
    Finally: You want him to show appreciation if the things you do, you also need to do the same. If he does the dishes, either with or without you, show your appreciation of him for doing the dishes, or taking your child to school. Make him feel good about the things he does for you.

    Do things together and as team. For too long it seems you both have been in a master-slave relationship that there is no seems of partnership anymore, only dominance. You both need to start acting as a team again, and it starts with you acting as a team member. You can do it, and you both can live a happy life, where you both are happy with one another as a team.

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