Wednesday, January 16, 2013

Intentional vs Unintentional Punishment

I've been thinking about my comment on punishment. In my last post I said that I have no interest in punishing my Knight whether it be corporal punishment, or not. As I was turning that over in my head, it occurred to me that regardless of my interest or intentions, maybe I end up punishing my Knight anyway. When I'm unhappy with his actions I don't flirt as often, I'm not as affectionate as I am when all is well between us. It's not something I do intentionally - it just happens as a natural consequence of my feelings of disappointment. Because I do expect my Knight to meet deadlines, complete tasks I request of him, and in general not screw things up or make things difficult , I do feel disappointed in him when he doesn't do as asked.

Maybe.. intentional punishment would be better.. more clear, more direct and more quickly resolved that what happens unintentionally?

It's something to think about.


12 comments:

  1. Yes, that is a good comment. Withdrawing you love, or your attention from a man is a punishmnet. A friend punishes her man by giving him the silent treatment for a day or two. It drives him crazy. Kathy

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  2. It would be more effective if I punished him intentionally. I need to give this some thought.

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  3. The point of my last comment was not to be critical, but simply point out that, for him, there were no consequences when deadlines were missed and tasks undone. As far as punishments, Mistress Kathy is right, the silent treatment drives us males nuts. I hate it when my spouse does that. Maybe you need to compile a list of his favorite things or activities and take them away for a period when he doesn't perform up to par. Sports on TV, Computer, golf, etc. There simply must be a consequence for failure on his part. For the life of me, I can't understand why he would be doing this to you if the FLR is really what he wants and needs. Most submissive men would cut their right arm off for a spouse such as you and he's seems to screw it up on purpose. Maybe it's his way to try and communicate something he's afraid to say to you directly. Honestly, I'm baffled.

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    1. I didn't take your comment as being critical. I'm evaluating and considering as I go along here.

      And.. Yes, I've had the same thought, that he's screwing up on purpose, and I can't figure out why, or what I'm missing. I've talked to him a lot over the past year and a half, or whatever it's been. But he's still really uncomfortable sharing his feelings regarding the FLR, which makes things rather difficult for me.

      In all fairness to my Knight, though, our relationship has improved a thousand times over what it was before FLR.

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  4. If you clearly know the needs and wants of your Knight than you can address your actions towards what will be the more effective. It not necessarily punishment, it could be consequences of some sort in order to gain his obedience. And it could be done in a fun way: offering a handjob and stopping short before he orgasm saying *sorry my Dear, but you fail to do xyz so I'll have to complete another time when the job is done*. Of course you better be in bed with him unless he might masturbate. Another reason for having a Chastity device...

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    1. And there lies the real problem.My Knight is not yet comfortable talking about FLR or submission, or consequences. Getting him to talk about his needs or wants in this area is almost impossible. He still tells me his only goal is to see me happy.When we talk, he tells me he enjoys the FLR because I'm happier. But... his behavior has changed a lot since we started FLR. He's happier, more confident, less needy, more... HIM... So, I know he's getting something out of this. But, I can't put my finger on what's missing, and he's not able to tell me yet.

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  5. This may sound weird but here is my take as it relates to me.

    I am a carrot and stick type of person. I like to have goals to strive for and consequences to keep me going. I know these days that punishment is not the in thing.

    But here is the weird part. When I slip up, don't do something, do wrong, whatever I want to know that I will be punished.

    There was a time in the last year when my wife did whip me a few times. It hurt. It sort of got close to what I really crave. A knowing that if I do X then I will get Y and that helps me not do X. But if there is doubt that I will get punished then this structure is no help for me.

    To me both punishment and flirting take effort and that shows love. Flirting is like the carrot. A non erotic spanking/caning/whipping is the stick. The freedom of a dbsm aspect to the relationship allows spanking to take place. To me it is one way to help a submissive achieve more than they could.

    Rambling thoughts I know.

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    1. It makes sense. I don't know if my husband is wired the same way or not.. maybe. I do know that when we first started FLR, there were consequences for rule infractions. That worked well for awhile, and then he started blowing off the consequences. So, then there were consequences for blowing off the first consequences. You see how this snowballs? It just did not work for us, and I don't know why.

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  6. Mistress Angelique,

    I am writing this to you while I am wearing binder clips on my nipples. It hurts bad. Even more when I will take them off in about half an hour and the blood flows back. OUCH!!! I must admit, I am a bit of a masochist, as I think many submissive men are.

    Mr. Her Majesty’s Plaything once said, "You can not punish a mouse by giving it a piece of cheese." There is great wisdom in this. Inflicting pain on a masochist is often counter-productive.

    However, as Mistress Kathy wisely points out, withdrawing the feeling of dominance from a submissive man and being overt in doing so is something Ms. Rika points to as having a very good effect.

    Sincerely,

    -SH

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    1. SH - I've tried withdrawing my dominance as a consequence. While doing so makes my point, it also leaves my Knight feeling unloved, and like I've given up on him. Obviously, that's counter productive, and ultimately damaging to our relationship. I want my Knight to feel loved and cared for, even when he's screwed up. But I also want him to understand that screwing up is supposed to be an occasional thing.. not an every day thing.

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  7. I think that whenever there is going to be a FLM or D/s where there are expectations and rules to follow and someone in charge, that there must be a consequence to not doing as you are told, or have agreed to do. I feel punishment is a very important part of the dynamic and cannot be skimped out on. It is not fun to be made to punish someone but as the Domme, Mistress, Woman in Charge it is our role to dole out punishments when our husband, sub etc deserves it. I think he knows he can keep getting away with things, so I feel he needs a very clear, well discussed so there are no miscommunications happening punishment. Your role is to lead but also to discipline. I agree in a perfect world our subs would be following every rule perfectly and never need punishment, but there is not a reality because the fact is they are human. they will fuck up and make mistakes and sometimes really make us frustrated. Also just curious does your hubby read this blog? I just wonder how he feels if he does, seeing you repeatedly needing to vent and seek advise on the same bad behavior over and over and over. I would be embarrassed if I were him because as a sub wanting to please your dominant is top priority and just knowing you have disappointed them can be a punishment in a sense, but then to know that others are going to know that you disappointed her just makes it even worse. If I were him I would be wanting to please you, and part of that will be in accepting punishment for what it is worth when he has earned it.

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  8. While I found the book of Ms Rika of great value on many points I'm less fond with the fact that it's very one-sided towards the dominant. In a marriage or LTR both spouses need to have their needs addressed. As for the withdrawal of the opportunity to serve I'd say it can be damaging while establishing a lifestyle or for a troubled one. I think that small steps and patience will do more mileage than frustration. Persistence is the best approach I think.

    I'm re-reading the book of Mistress Ivey Taking back your marriage (excellent for beginners KH by the way) and there's a recall of an approach practiced by someone. I plan to adapt it and propose to my wife something similar as this: the idea is for the husband to behave well in regards with attitude and chores as he will earn credits and after a certain amount he will be offered a reward by the spouse. It could be anything from a torrid sex session to a nice dinner or else. And if the husband fails (as not making an agreed task) he won't earn credits delaying his reward at the same time. What's nice about that is that it's the husband who's responsible for delaying his reward meaning he's the one who's punishing himself as the KH on contrary is motivating him to perform well in order to give him satisfaction. That's what we could call a positive punishment.

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