Wednesday, October 17, 2012

Talking, talking and MORE Talking

My Knight and I use a written set of rules to remind us each what is expected in terms of our flr. When I suspended the agreement back it....July - was it?..... I deleted our only copy of our old rules. Think of it as the equivalent of tearing up a contract.  So.. now I'm rewriting our rules.

As part of the at process I am asking my Knight (again) about motivations, reasons, wants, needs, ect.  I  remember why I was so frustrated with him, and questioning all this before.  

My Knight is using phrases like "it's better than the alternative", "I don't know that I do enjoy being controlled", "no, I don't have an underlying need or desire to be controlled. What I have is an underlying need to see you happy" , "sometimes it's okay, and sometimes it reminds me of my ex" ,   "I am happy and content with the flr",  "It works for us",   "How can I not enjoy it, we're not fighting all the time",  "I don't feel controlled, babe". 

Not a very convincing argument in favor of flr. Of course, his behavior is, as it's always been, very positive toward flr. 

During the conversation my Knight said to me something along the lines of,  "of course I enjoy it, it's better than the alternative, isn't it? You'd do the same thing" .....

And there's the issue... I would NOT do the same. If I were in his shoes and my choices were:
     1. Hand over almost total control to my partner           or
     2. Go back to the way things were  between us 18 months ago

I would choose neither. I would end the relationship. Divorce would be better than door number one, and door number two was miserable and unhappy. 

So.. when my Knight says to me "it's better than the alternative" what I'm hearing is .. "eh.. it's better/easier than a divorce."

Which is seriously NOT the same as liking the arrangement, or enjoying the flr dynamic. 

And that's my hang up. I'm not sure how to get around it, either.  I care very deeply about my Knight's happiness.  If he's not getting anything from flr except a lack of fighting and less stress... then I don't understand why he wanted to reinstate it.  I'm not going to suspend the flr again... I promised him I would leave it intact unless he said the states "I don't want the flr anymore." But, at the same time I need to understand his motivations here.. for my own peace of mind. I have no problem being the dominant partner and managing/controlling things. Over the last 18 months, I have found that I enjoy it most of the time. .... BUT ... I don't want it at the expense of his happiness or contentedness. 

At the same time... my Knight SEEMS happier, more secure, more confident, less stressed, more content, more open emotionally, when I am the dominant partner. There is a clear difference in him between when we do active flr, and when we don't. Even before I suspended the agreement.. when I occasionally and accidentally dropped it by no exerting my control, my Knight started slipping back to old ways. He  became lost. When I made the effort to regain that control, he was happier and more himself again. 

When I point that out to him, my Knight always says he doesn't see it.  But.. I see it.. heck the KIDS see the difference in him 

There is a part of me that wants... no..needs to know that my Knight wants the flr.. that he enjoys the arrangement and that it makes him happy and content. Yes, I have behavioral evidence. I'm not denying that. But...... if flr is only "better than the alternative"  then.. who is to say the positive changes I see in my Knight are not simply from lack of conflict and not directly flr related?  

Many readers will probably think I'm over-analyzing this... and maybe I am. But that's how my mind works. There is a reason for everything... every action.. every behavior. And in writing our new rules knowing the reasons why he wants this... knowing that he does want this... leads to different rules than simply agreeing to keep the peace. 


  1. As a way of getting an answer to your question I would add one more rule:
    "Every day you are to write a minimum of 200 words from the perspective of you as my sub, once a week you are to write at least 500 words" I want this sent to my email by 10pm daily"

    If you re-read what you just wrote, and read what you wrote in your first post when you reflected on screwing up, you will see this deep desire to get inside his head and understand him. You have to find a way do that. The above is but one suggestion. I wish you well.

    1. I've already done that. We went back to the daily task lists we used when we first started. On each day's list is a small flr related writing assignment. Usually something like: list the 5 things you like best about our flr arrangement. or List 3 things you don't like about our arrangement...

      small bite sized chunks that, hopefully, he doesn't have to think about to much that will get him thinking and talking to me.

  2. It's possible that he doesn't entirely 'get it' himself, I am still coming to terms with my own submission and sometimes I seem to sabotage it subconsciously. The truth is it's not always easy to admit to ourselves that we want to live this way, never mind someone else, even the person closest to us!

    1. I've considered that. And, in fact, it's very likely. Oftentimes my Knight isn't always sure why he does or wants the things he does. I hope we can get to a point where he is comfortable enough to talk to me about what he's thinking and feeling when it comes to our flr.

  3. "There is a part of me that wants... no..needs to know that my Knight wants the flr.. that he enjoys the arrangement and that it makes him happy and content."

    This is just what I want from Jane. I need to know that she is enjoying my submission and wants to encourage it becuase she likes me to worship and serve her.

    Obviously this can work both ways, and you are no different from me. Jane has never expressed her views either way, so I certainly dont know if she tolerates it because it's "better than the alternative", but maybe she does.

    Maybe we should get together lol :o)

    1. LOL.... I wish I knew what to tell you. Personally, I enjoy the flr arrangement I have with my Knight. It's not the submission that I enjoy as much as it is the Person he becomes when I lead him. But... that's a whole post in itself.

      I imagine a lot of couples have trouble talking about aspects of flr. Discussing it leaves both partners completely open to the other. That's a difficult thing to do, no matter how close the couple.

      Have you flat out ask Jane what she enjoys about your arrangement?

  4. Angelique - we don't talk about any aspect of our "arrangement", FLR or WLM whatever you call it because I don't want Jane to see it as that, an "arrangement". I have tried in the past but Jane isnt interested in anything that is unatural or false, a game etc.

    She is just now, after six years of me pursuing a form of WLM that I think she can enjoy, that she is now beginning to realise that my desire to submit to her is borune out of my desire to please her, and be held by her "under her spell".

    As I have said many times before, it is only when she is enoying and encouraging my submission that I will only truly feel happy, seeing her wanting my submission.

    1. Each couple has to do what's right for them. We talk about our "arrangement" because I insist we discuss it. Me being in charge is natural for us. I was in charge from day one - I just didn't realize it. But, for me actively use our natural order, I need to know it makes my Knight happy.. and want to understand what parts of it make him happy. So..we talk about it. Often my Knight doesn't want to talk about it, but I insist the dynamic is out in the open between us.



Knight has a thing for body piercings. I have a couple piercings that he gets to play with and take photos of when he's been really good...