With the restart of our flr, I've restarted our 20 questions game. For those who don't know, my Knight has a tough time talking about flr topics. He'll admit that the power dynamic works for us, that he feels happier and more emotionally secure under flr. He won't/cant tell me what he wants from the arrangement or in what ways he'd like to see it grow and move. So, to give him specific things to consider I started an ongoing game of 20 questions.I give him a question and a deadline. He replies with his answer and a question for me. (no deadline, though).
My first question last week was simple.. "Did you miss the tease and denial while we were on our flr break"
His answer "Of course I missed it."
My next question was, "Would you give up orgasm denial and go back to "typical sex" if given the chance?
He answered by telling me " I don't know what you mean by "typical."
So.. I defined it as "not needing my permission to orgasm, and expecting to orgasm every time we had sex."
Then in another email on another subject he commented on the orgasm denial in a very positive way..so I asked him " How come you keep questioning the orgasm denial thing in one sentence, but tell me you like it in the next. Why are you so conflicted about it?"
He answered with,
"
I don't know, babe. Probably flashback stuff...being forced to "go without" and "hold back" pushes all kinds of buttons with me, which I've gone to great lengths to un-wire...or thought I had, anyway. "
By "flashback stuff" he means emotional crap created by his mentally-ill, emotionally abusive and sexually hung up ex-wife. He's been with me for just about 10 years now, and while he's improved a LOT, her treatment of him still rears its ugly head sometimes.
Okay.. so I get that, and I'm very ... very aware of the damage his ex did to him. I keep it in mind when I decide when and how he gets to orgasm, and how long he goes in between. I'm so aware of it that I hesitated to even bring up the idea of orgasm control to him at first. When I finally did, I presented it as a game I wanted to try, and gave him the ability to "opt out" of the "tease and denial game." He's also allowed to ask to orgasm..with no promise that I will grant the request, but no repercussions for asking, either.
And yet......in the.. 2? 3? years that I've been controlling his orgasms, I have never once seen it have an adverse effect on him. Not only has he never asked how to "opt out" but he has not.. not even once..asked me to allow him an orgasm. Further. over the last 3 months things have been pretty tense between us.. there has been little to no sex play at all. And yet..he admitted to me that he did not masturbate at all during that time, for the simple reason that it is against my rules. (yes. I believe him)
What *does* have bad effects is when we go a while without much sex play at all. We've been known to go 3 months or more with little to no sex play at all. Mostly that happens either:
1.When I'm super stressed out over something
2.When we're off the flr and I'm irritated and upset with him
3. When I'm off my ldn. (It's an alternative med I take for the MS. Without it, I have just about no sex drive. With it, I'm almost always interested in sex)
Lack of sex play makes him depressed, moody, upset, needy, and just overall a pain in the ass. For the record.. number 2, is the reason for our recent 3 month break.
But when I make it a point to tease, and then deny him often, he enjoys it. He's generally content to enjoy whatever it is I'm doing to him. When I call done, he usually drifts off to sleep peacefully. He doesn't push, or ask for more, or try to "sneak" his way to an orgasm. One time when I asked what he thought of it, he told me "I like it too much"
So.. I am confused about why he is conflicted about orgasm denial. To all outward appearances he seems to love it.. craves it sometimes even. Sometimes he tells me he loves it, and other times he tells me he's still not sure. I'm wondering if he just seems to enjoy the tease and denial because he knows I expect it.. or if he really does love it as much as he shows....
Mostly, though, I'm wondering how I can help him to become less conflicted about it... how I can help him let go of the negatives he associated with his ex- hang ups and give himself to the joy of orgasm denial... because I'm not likely to give that up any time soon.
By the way.. in case you're wondering.. here is how I answered his email..
and I can honestly say you are a much better lover when I'm in control of the final outcome..... you were too busy rushing to get to the end to slow down and pay attention to the process. Before it seemed like every time we touched at all you expected to get to the end.. there was no playing just to play.. and sex was mostly about you.. I can't count the number of times you rolled over and went to sleep because you were done.(.hundreds.. ) and totally forgot about me.. plus,there was very little emotional connection during sex..you stayed closed off..You were only half there..........It made me irritated, resentful and there were more than a few times that I avoided sex completely because I knew it would be just another repeat of the same.. you'd get off, and then go to sleep and forget about me. And..when I tried to talk to you about it you didn't listen.
Since we started the tease/denial thing.. you pay more attention...not only to me..physically, but to the energy and emotions..in bed and out.. and you pay more attention to what you're feeling.. you seem to pay more attention to the process.. you get totally lost to the sensations,
By "flashback stuff" he means emotional crap created by his mentally-ill, emotionally abusive and sexually hung up ex-wife. He's been with me for just about 10 years now, and while he's improved a LOT, her treatment of him still rears its ugly head sometimes.
Okay.. so I get that, and I'm very ... very aware of the damage his ex did to him. I keep it in mind when I decide when and how he gets to orgasm, and how long he goes in between. I'm so aware of it that I hesitated to even bring up the idea of orgasm control to him at first. When I finally did, I presented it as a game I wanted to try, and gave him the ability to "opt out" of the "tease and denial game." He's also allowed to ask to orgasm..with no promise that I will grant the request, but no repercussions for asking, either.
And yet......in the.. 2? 3? years that I've been controlling his orgasms, I have never once seen it have an adverse effect on him. Not only has he never asked how to "opt out" but he has not.. not even once..asked me to allow him an orgasm. Further. over the last 3 months things have been pretty tense between us.. there has been little to no sex play at all. And yet..he admitted to me that he did not masturbate at all during that time, for the simple reason that it is against my rules. (yes. I believe him)
What *does* have bad effects is when we go a while without much sex play at all. We've been known to go 3 months or more with little to no sex play at all. Mostly that happens either:
1.When I'm super stressed out over something
2.When we're off the flr and I'm irritated and upset with him
3. When I'm off my ldn. (It's an alternative med I take for the MS. Without it, I have just about no sex drive. With it, I'm almost always interested in sex)
Lack of sex play makes him depressed, moody, upset, needy, and just overall a pain in the ass. For the record.. number 2, is the reason for our recent 3 month break.
But when I make it a point to tease, and then deny him often, he enjoys it. He's generally content to enjoy whatever it is I'm doing to him. When I call done, he usually drifts off to sleep peacefully. He doesn't push, or ask for more, or try to "sneak" his way to an orgasm. One time when I asked what he thought of it, he told me "I like it too much"
So.. I am confused about why he is conflicted about orgasm denial. To all outward appearances he seems to love it.. craves it sometimes even. Sometimes he tells me he loves it, and other times he tells me he's still not sure. I'm wondering if he just seems to enjoy the tease and denial because he knows I expect it.. or if he really does love it as much as he shows....
Mostly, though, I'm wondering how I can help him to become less conflicted about it... how I can help him let go of the negatives he associated with his ex- hang ups and give himself to the joy of orgasm denial... because I'm not likely to give that up any time soon.
By the way.. in case you're wondering.. here is how I answered his email..
um.. can I point something out? we play *more* since we started
this.. and we're more playful about sex in general... the playing stops
because we're irritated with each other.... ...
and really..I'm not making you "go without" as you put it.. because you
can always ask. I'm not "forcing" you to do anything...there has always
been an "opt out" option.. .. and you've never once asked about the "opt
out option" . It's not forcing you because you agreed to it.
You must be hiding it well, because it doesn't seem
to bother you when I tease and play..and have you wait. You seem like
you enjoy it, baby...........It obviously bothers you when we don't play
at all.. and that usually happens because I'm stressed or irritated or
off my LDN,or I've been lax about flr stuff..
and I can honestly say you are a much better lover when I'm in control of the final outcome..... you were too busy rushing to get to the end to slow down and pay attention to the process. Before it seemed like every time we touched at all you expected to get to the end.. there was no playing just to play.. and sex was mostly about you.. I can't count the number of times you rolled over and went to sleep because you were done.(.hundreds.. ) and totally forgot about me.. plus,there was very little emotional connection during sex..you stayed closed off..You were only half there..........It made me irritated, resentful and there were more than a few times that I avoided sex completely because I knew it would be just another repeat of the same.. you'd get off, and then go to sleep and forget about me. And..when I tried to talk to you about it you didn't listen.
Since we started the tease/denial thing.. you pay more attention...not only to me..physically, but to the energy and emotions..in bed and out.. and you pay more attention to what you're feeling.. you seem to pay more attention to the process.. you get totally lost to the sensations,
............and you're incredibly, and adorably sexy squirming under my touch.... lost to everything except what I'm doing to you.
After reading your post, I don't see his reactions as all that unusual. I believe what he is trying to say is simply that the intimacy between you means much more to him than whether he gets to orgasm or not. He just craves the intimacy and closeness of any kind with you. Holding hands, teasing, kissing, cuddling, it's all good. No attention of any kind kills him. My spouse is a little under the weather with a bad cold right now and is definitely not in the mood for play. I'm really missing the daily playful intimacy with her, not an orgasm. Not that unusual.
ReplyDeleteI agree with wishful4. My feelings are exactly the same. I don't mind being denied, and actually want it, even though at the moment it heppens, it feels frustrating. What I actually hate is when instead of active denial, I get ignored (Sexually ignored, I mean). I wish Miss V (my wife) would do something, anything, even if it is to ask me to stand in the corner and bring myself to an edge. The fact that I'm doing it at her command would make it denial, even if she didn't put a finger on me.'
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that you take the opt-out option off the table, since it is obvious that he doesn't want out, and start asking for privileges in exchange of granting him his wish of controlling his orgasms. If he is anything like me, he would gladly "pay" for the chance to be teased and denied.
The key for you is to enjoy yourself, so whatever you do, or have him do to you or with you, make sure you are as pleased as possible. Then, tease him often, letting him know you are teasing him, and have fun with it. It should not be hard work for you. Think about ways to make it easier, and if you are not in the mood, you can always have him do the work for you.
Good luck
I am in the midst of blogging about this myself. I too am 'conflicted' in that I like to orgasm but I like to be denied too. As an otherwise logical person, this causes some internal stress. Sometimes when I am denied, I REALLY want to come and am disappointment that she didn't give me that release. Other times, she decides to give me an orgasm when I would like to be denied further. Weird!
ReplyDeleteI find that when my wife climaxes and she teases but denies me, my emotional and intimacy needs are met, maybe even better than when we both climax. I feel like she "understands" me and my kinks. It's as if I NEED her to climax but I simply WANT to climax myself.
When I am denied, I feel energetic and I pursue "courtship behavior". I am nicer to her and feel like when we were first dating. When I climax, I feel spent and sometimes even irritable. The pleasure of the orgasm (most times) doesn't outweigh the drawbacks.
I will say that I NEED the teasing though. The rush I get from being naked and her playing with me, edging me, it's fantastic. Oh, and I guess I should mention, that not knowing if I will come, and her having the power to make that decision, is a huge turnon for me as a sub. Maybe that's what happened in his prior relationship? Not having any intimate play very quickly leads to depression and anxiety for me. Not fun at all.